Sexy series with Joanne Dannon

This is Episode 13 of Write with Love.

Joanne Dannon has written 13 contemporary romances including a sexy Alex Jackson series, Christmas stories and box sets with other authors. She’s an Indie Author who project manages every aspect of her life!

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Transcript:

Sarah Williams:            G’day. I’m Sarah Williams, romance author and independent publisher at Serenade Publishing. Today I’m chatting to Joanne Dannon, successful NZ author. Thanks for joining me today, Joanne. How are you?

Joanne Dannon:           Good, thanks, Sarah. Thanks for having me on your vlog.

Sarah Williams:            No worries. So, can you just give us a little introduction, and tell us about your author journey so far?

Joanne Dannon:           Okay. So I’m Joanne Dannon. I have 13 books currently published, and a number of sets. I write mild, steamy, contemporary romance, and also, sweet romance. Sorry, I’m just wondering, there’s pop-ups coming up, and I’m not coming up on the screen.

Sarah Williams:            No, no, no.

Joanne Dannon:           Okay, sorry, [crosstalk 00:00:54].

Sarah Williams:            That’s okay.

Joanne Dannon:           Oh, my gosh, I got pop-ups coming up on the screen, sorry.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah. Yeah. That’s okay.

Joanne Dannon:           I’m indie published, as you mentioned, and I’m very open about how I became an independent or self-published, and I like to share all the mistakes that I’ve made, and share them with other authors, so they don’t make the same mistakes that I made. So I’ll start there.

Joanne Dannon:           So I started writing … Well, everybody wants to know, why you write romance? I started writing romance, because I love it, and I’ve been reading it for so many years. I wrote to some of my favorite, Mills and Boon, Australian romance writers.

Joanne Dannon:           I can’t remember off the top of my head, who they were, but one of them was Trish Murray, who’s lovely, and she recommended that I join Romance Writers of Australia. It just turned out that there was a conference at the time. It was 2007. So I went along to my first conference, and I found my trial so happy.

Joanne Dannon:           I just found these amazing authors. It was actually funny that I turned around and said hello to the person next to me, who was Rachel [Tenafly 00:02:03], Rachel Johns, so that’s how we became friends, and I just met all these amazing authors, and people whose books that I’d read, I was meeting them, and just learning my craft.

Joanne Dannon:           So I went to conferences every year after that, and did some more learning, and read every how to book, and just kept writing, and submitting. Unfortunately, all my books at that time were being rejected. I was aiming for the line that I loved the most, because I really wanted to write for Mills and Boon, which is their Presents line, on the [inaudible 00:02:34] in Australia.

Joanne Dannon:           Every book was being rejected that I was writing, and I had an epiphany, a few years after all these rejections, and I realized that I had to write something else. I was writing for the wrong line, and that’s why I was being rejected. So I wrote a book with a hero who could sing and dance, like Michael Buble, because I love him.

Joanne Dannon:           At the time, I was being mentored by Melanie Milburne, and she said to me, “No one is going to buy your book. No one wants a superstar,” and I went, “Okay, but I really love him, and I want to write this book.” I felt that I’d found my voice, instead of forcing my voice to go into these books that were being rejected.

Joanne Dannon:           So I wrote the book, and of course, no one wanted it, because they didn’t want a superstar. And then, I started, ended up writing a series, so there’s now four books in that series, and the first book is published. It’s Kisses Under The Spotlight.

Joanne Dannon:           And, so, I’m writing these books. I found my voice. I’m happy, and I looked at these books, and I’m going, “These are much better than what I was writing before, when I was trying to force my voice, because I wanted the dream, just like Claire.” Connolly wanted to write the [inaudible 00:03:45]. So did I, but I couldn’t get my voice into that category.

Joanne Dannon:           So, I just kept writing these books, that I loved, and that’s part of the reason why I ended up going down, in 2014, no, sorry, 2015. My apologies. And became a self-published writer, because I couldn’t find a publisher, who wanted what I was writing.

Sarah Williams:            Exactly, and I think you can definitely tell that it is your voice in your books, and you’re not conforming, or anything like that. It’s you. Like you were saying, that is the great thing about an indie. We can put out what we feel, is it, our best?

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah. So that’s good. Slightly brilliant. So …

Joanne Dannon:           All those books that I wrote, I mean, they’re terrible, because I was forcing, do you know what I mean? I was forcing, that’s why, it’s like … It was a big decision to make, and at the time, it’s like, “Oh, that’s good that you found your voice, and you wrote,” but in a way, it was kind of stupid, because I had no one to submit to. I’m lucky that there’s self-publishing available.

Joanne Dannon:           Otherwise, I would have all these fantastic books, that just kind of sat in my computer. So I’m very grateful that I can have that opportunity, to self-publish my books.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah. No, that’s great. So you started publishing them, so, two, three years ago?

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            Which is fantastic, and tell us about that, in terms of, did you originally publish with just, Kindle? Or did you go wide?

Joanne Dannon:           So, I started off wide, which means, in a writer, is that you’re available on all platforms. So, not just Amazon, you’re in iTunes, and Barnes & Noble, Kobo, so I was across wide. I just felt that my sales weren’t really working, and Amazon, yes, they’re massive, but they do do a lot of benefits for authors. I was looking at these benefits, and tossing out, I think I’d been publisher, about a year and a half by this stage.

Joanne Dannon:           That’s still quite awhile, that I’d been wide, and I thought, “You know what? I’m going to go and ask my readers.” So I polled them, and I said, “Okay, I’m thinking about moving to Amazon, which means they’re only available to, via Amazon, and Kindle, what do you think?” Basically, most of them said, “Okay.” What I do for those readers, who, for whatever reason, can’t access the books, I give them to them for free. So they’ll get a copy of it through Kobo.

Joanne Dannon:           I have a few of those readers, and I just give them my books for free, because I felt bad that they were going to miss out. But, for me, being through a KU, which is Kindle, our manager has been fantastic. It’s been amazing for me. I’ve been able to reach more readers. Most of my readers are in Kindle, and most of them have KU. I have KU, and I love it, and I know that my readers love it.

Joanne Dannon:           So, for me, that is where I want to stay at the moment. It suits me. I think it’s really good for romance writers, to all contemporary romance writers.

Sarah Williams:            So, Kindle Unlimited is fairly new in Australia. It’s only been around for a few months.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            So I like to say, it’s Netflix for books.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            You can borrow whatever you like from the library, and …

Joanne Dannon:           That’s right.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah, just a subscription. I can’t remember, I think it’s $14.95 or something a month?

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah, it’s $10 US. I think it’s about 14. I mean, I love it. I absolutely love it. I read Heat. I mean, I may be a writer, but I’m also a writer.

Sarah Williams:            Yup.

Joanne Dannon:           For me, it’s a good way of trying out new writers, and you can just read heaps of books, and I just love it. I understand why my readers love it, and they offer a lot of benefits for writers.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah.

Joanne Dannon:           There’s a reason why they’re so big.

Sarah Williams:            That’s it, and …

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah, they don’t …

Sarah Williams:            Yeah, and because romance writers are such voracious readers, it is that great way … They’re not having to spend, even $3 or $4 for a book, it’s $14, and there you go.

Joanne Dannon:           Right. That’s right.

Sarah Williams:            Yup.

Joanne Dannon:           Because, don’t forget, a lot, some of my readers, they read a book a day, which is phenomenal. And so, if you think about it, my books are $3, $2.99 US. So, if they read a book a day, even if they only read, say, 15 or 20 books, paying $10 a month, they’re already well ahead.

Sarah Williams:            That’s it.

Joanne Dannon:           So, I can understand why these readers would be in KU. You’ve got lots of reasons why people read, and people, some people just read a lot.

Sarah Williams:            Yup. That’s excellent, and like you were saying at the beginning, you’ve been very open with your journey so far. I know you, we’re doing a lot of blogging, and you’ve taken a little bit of a break from it now, but tell us about blogging, and how that’s helped you reach your readers, and also, other authors.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah, so, I guess, I wasn’t doing … I was blogging, and then, I [inaudible 00:08:35], on the list. [inaudible 00:08:37] that’s ended up again, and one of the reasons is, I went to the New Zealand conference, the Romance Writers of New Zealand Conference, and one of the reasons I went there was because Kristen Lamb was there, and she’s amazing. She did a one-day workshop on [inaudible 00:08:51].

Joanne Dannon:           One of the things that she was pushing is that you needed to do a lot of blogging. Okay? Can you still see me? Because now there’s a little, Poor Connection, coming up, sorry. She was actually recommending that you blog regularly, and she’s amazing, and I got to chat with her, and I went, “You know what? I really like your reasons why,” and so, then, I started up.

Joanne Dannon:           So I have at least a blog, one or two a week. She likes once a day. I don’t do once a day, but I do once or two times a week, although, as I was mentioning to you before, off air, is that we’re just doing major renovations, so I’ve been a little bit lax on the social media, and blogging, and everything. But I’ll get back into it, once I’m sort of set up in my office, and everything’s all back to normal.

Sarah Williams:            Yup.

Joanne Dannon:           So, yeah, I think that that’s been good. With blogging, it’s not really, just going out, it’s more, getting people to get a path back into your website. That’s really why it’s so good.

Sarah Williams:            Yes. Yes, and that it’s a really good reason, and I know, I just recently started blogging for Romance Writers of Australia. So, I’m only doing that once a month. That’s enough.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Williams:            But, couldn’t imagine doing it every day.

Joanne Dannon:           Well, I was writing for Savvy Authors for awhile, which I love, but it just became too much, with all the renovations and everything else I was doing. But, having that, as well, and it’s really, really good. First, it’s good for you, to be out, and start writing these pieces, but it also gets people from, I don’t know, all around the world to find you, and to find your articles, and to read them.

Sarah Williams:            Yup, that’s it, exactly. So tell us about time management for you, because I know, you’re also a busy mum.

Joanne Dannon:           I am a busy mum, so, I get up quite early in the morning. I’m up usually around five o’clock. I work from about 5:30, till about 7:00. Then I get my boys ready for school. They’re off at eight o’clock, and then, I do a little bit more work. I try to fit in some exercise every day.

Joanne Dannon:           I do help out at my son’s school. I have a husband who travels a lot, and is away a lot, so, yeah, it’s just very, very busy, and I do like to try and spend time with the kids. I probably could write a little bit more, but I’ve decided, for the time being, I really want to spend time with the kids while they’re doing, and also do some charity work.

Joanne Dannon:           So I try to fit it all in. I don’t write every day. I do something for my … Well, for me, this is a business, so I’m on Facebook every day, but that’s also, looking at my writing friends. I do a lot of group promotions. I send out a newsletter every week. I know a lot of people don’t like newsletters. I’m very pro-newsletter, and that takes me a good one to two hours, every Monday morning, my time, which goes out to the US.

Joanne Dannon:           It works at the times really great. Rise Sunday afternoon, their time, and all of that takes time, and working with other writers, and that. So, I don’t just write. I do a lot of, as I said, this is a business. I do a lot of group promotions. I promote other writers, they promote me. That all just takes time.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah, that said, exactly.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            Brilliant. So, tell us about your books. You’ve got a couple of different series?

Joanne Dannon:           Yep. Yep. So, I’ve got a few series. I’ve got my Desert Desires, and other desert sort of books that I have. I’ve got my Alex Jackson series, which is four books, and even though they’re all stand alone, they’re all linked, and that’s probably my most popular series, ironically, the one that, no, the publishers won’t do it: “That’s really a long set!”

Joanne Dannon:           I can watch with my sales. That’s one good thing, with indy publishing, you can watch your sales, and at the beginning of each month, I see a little spike of the first book, and then, I watch as each book is read. It’s just really interesting. There’s no sales at the beginning of the month, of book Two, Three, and Four, and then, you see it over the month, progressively getting higher. It’s really interesting.

Joanne Dannon:           You see Book Two getting read, you see Book Three, and then, Book Four getting read. So that’s really funny, and also, with the holiday romances. What’s really nice is that I’ve been working with Charmaine Ross, who’s amazing, very talented writer. I met her through IWA, which is great, and she lives in Melbourne, which is a bonus. So we catch up, and we’ve been doing holiday romances together.

Joanne Dannon:           So we do a Hanukkah Christmas romances, and there doesn’t seem to be anyone else doing it, which is nice, and so, I do the Hanukkah, she does the Christmas, and we link the characters together. So, it’s a lot of working together, but it’s so much, and I really like working with her, and the readers really like it. So that’s been good.

Joanne Dannon:           I’ve just done my latest book, which is supposed to be a stand alone. And then, so this one was Left At The Altar. So, you had, the heroine was torn between the groom, and hero. Most of the books that I’ve written in the past is that the groom that she’s going to marry turns out to be a cheater, or he’s doing something bad in his life. It’s almost like a justification, while she goes off with someone else.

Joanne Dannon:           All of those books always work that way, and I thought, “You know what? I want to do something different.” I’ve made it so hard for myself. So I had the two brothers as being, both being really nice guys, and who’ve been torn between the two of them. I made it really hard, and it was actually a very hard book to write, but I’m glad, because, in the end, it’s a weird … Well, I love the book, and the readers really like the book, and it was supposed to be a stand alone Valentine’s Day romance.

Joanne Dannon:           But, then, everyone wants to know, what happened to the groom? I’m like, “Nothing, it’s the end of the book! Nothing happened to him!” So, then, I thought, I had too many e-mails. I had too many readers writing to me, going, “What happens to Felix? I want to know what happens to Felix.” I went, “Okay.” So now I’m writing another book, so, now, it’s going to become a series, and there’ll be the two books linked.

Joanne Dannon:           So you get to see what happens to Felix at the end, and I’ve just started sketching out some ideas, but I’m in the middle of writing another book, so I can only do … I know some writes can two books at once. I can’t do that. I’ve got to finish the book that I’m writing now, then I’ll write Felix’s, and then, I’ve got … So I’ve got three books at the moment, that I need to write, and I’m also organizing two sets.

Joanne Dannon:           I’ve got a set coming out in August, for Asian Valentine’s Day, and then, I have a set that I’m … Also, when you project manage these sets, that also takes a lot of time, as well. It takes into your writing time, and I’m also organizing a Christmas set that’s coming out in [inaudible 00:15:35], for the holidays, for Christmas, and then, I’m also doing one with Charmaine. So, quite a lot of writing there.

Joanne Dannon:           I really like managing the sets. I was a project manager in my previous corporate life, so I enjoy running these sets, but it does take up writing time, so, but that’s okay. They’re fun, and it’s good to work with other writers, as well.

Sarah Williams:            It is, it is, and I love how you are helping other writers, with joint promos, and those sorts of things, as well.

Joanne Dannon:           Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Williams:            So, yeah. No, that’s absolutely fantastic, so … And you’ve just done some re-branding of your books, the [crosstalk 00:16:10].

Joanne Dannon:           Yes. Yes. Well, that was one of the mistakes I made, when I started out. A lot of things, I just kind of went out. I just didn’t know what I was doing. I just went out and published a book, because everyone said it was really easy, and it’s not. It’s not! It’s not easy. It’s very easy to go stick up a book in Amazon, but to make sales, and to get readers, it’s actually quite hard.

Joanne Dannon:           And so, one of the things is that I didn’t expect, in two and a half years, to launch the 10 books. Like, I just didn’t think that that was going to happen. I’ve got a massive reader list, and doing the newsletters, and all of this, and it’s like a business, and I didn’t expect it to happen so quickly. So, my advice to writers is, slow down. Work out your branding first, before you go start getting all your covers made.

Joanne Dannon:           That was my problem. I went, “Aw, that’s a really nice cover,” so I went and bought a pre-made cover, and then, I found something else: “Oh, that’s really nice.” Although my series were linked, but what would happen is, that with the branding on my books, my name is at the top on some of them, my name is down below, there were different fonts. The books were all beautiful. Don’t get me wrong. The covers were lovely. But there’s no consistency, and I thought, “You know what? You need consistency across the books.”

Joanne Dannon:           So, I went to the artist, and we just re-did all the books, and so, now, same fonts are used. My name is at the top. The title’s down below, and I think they’ve got a little bit more contemporary feel. Not that there was anything wrong with the other covers. They’re all beautiful, don’t get me wrong, but it’s just that, at least now, there’s consistency with the branding, and with my name.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah. And they do, they look fantastic, very steamed up.

Joanne Dannon:           Oh, thanks. Thank you.

Sarah Williams:            Excellent. So, you’ve been doing conferences for quite a long time now. So you’re a member of the Romance Writers of Australia, the Romance Writers of New Zealand, and the Romance Writers of America. So tell us about the sorts of things you’ve gotten out of being members of all these groups.

Joanne Dannon:           I think that they’re fantastic. I’m very thankful to Romance Writers of Australia, it’s where I started out. I was also running the Creative Partner Program, for a number of years, and it was actually really good, because, then, I’d just meet a lot of writers that way, which is really, really nice.

Joanne Dannon:           But I think going to the conference is really important, because, you still need to learn your craft. I mean, you can read heaps of books, and if you turn around, look over there on my shelf, I’ve got something like, 20 books or something, and I’ve read them all, and I still use, and I do reference them. But going to a conference is an opportunity to meet people. It’s a shame I didn’t get to meet you in Adelaide, or maybe I did, I don’t know. I did meet a lot of people.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah.

Joanne Dannon:           There was a lot of writers I met. I met Claire, I met a lot of other … It was really good. I met, what’s her name, Nikki Steele, who’s now living in America at the moment, who’s another [inaudible 00:19:01], just, there’s a lot of people that I got to meet, which was really good. So, every conference, I met new people, I learnt a lot, and it was fantastic.

Joanne Dannon:           I mean, look, there are some writers who can write their first book, and publish, and it’s great. I’m not one of them. It just took, it took time. Also, as I was explaining, at the beginning, I had to learn my voice, and work out where I sort of would fit in. Because I was trying to put myself … I just really wanted to write for Mills and Boon, and write for this Presents line, but my books didn’t fit there.

Joanne Dannon:           Actually, the line that that does fit into, they’ve closed down, which is a shame. I did speak to the editor, and they said, it’s never been brought back, which is a shame.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah.

Joanne Dannon:           So, looks like I’m sticking with my indy publishing, so, yeah.

Sarah Williams:            Great.

Joanne Dannon:           Oh, and going back to the question, [inaudible 00:19:56]. I keep working with a lot of New Zealand writers lately, which has been fantastic. So I headed over there, last August, which was fantastic. So I got to meet them in person, and I just shared a house with a number of them, and they were fantastic. It was so welcoming, it was really, really nice.

Joanne Dannon:           I am a little bit the introvert, so I did find the smaller conference a bit easier to deal with. I think there was about 150 people, whereas, at the Australian ones, there’s about 300. I find that quite overwhelming, so I like the smaller conference, and as I said, I went there, because of the whole day on marketing. Which, for me, suits me, at the moment. I mean, I’ve spent, I don’t know, 10 years going to conferences, learning my craft.

Joanne Dannon:           So I sort of feel like, I’ve learned as much as I can. I mean, you can always learn more, but at the moment, my focus is on marketing, growing sales, and I felt that the New Zealand conference suited me better, and I’ll be going this year, as well, because they got Bella Andre, and I’m like, “I am there.”

Sarah Williams:            Yes!

Joanne Dannon:           I mean, I am there.

Sarah Williams:            Yes, and I will be right … [crosstalk 00:21:03] I’m going to be right beside you, fangaling Bella Andre, get on this show!

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah, yeah. I’m planning on stalking her. No, I’m not.

Sarah Williams:            Yes.

Joanne Dannon:           No, no, I’m very excited, and they’ve got a great lineup. I was really impressed with their lineup, and I thought, also, going to Auckland, it’s only three hours away. So, it’s nice and close.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah, and we should shout out to all the volunteers that organize all these different conferences, and …

Joanne Dannon:           Oh, my gosh, yeah.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah. It’s like …

Joanne Dannon:           A lot of time is spent. A lot of their writing time is spent organizing these conferences, which are fantastic. I’ve always believed that they should have, hire someone as a project manager to do it. Because it’s so unfair on the volunteers, to give up so much time to run these conferences, because they’re amazing.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah.

Joanne Dannon:           I mean, they really are amazing.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah, and there’s been some conferences that are, just, exceeded people’s expectations. So it is hard for anyone else to kind of bring that, especially with budgets, and those sorts of things. There are so many conferences to choose from, and of course, you don’t just have to write romance, to be involved in Romance Writers of Australia, or the other ones.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            There’s the 20 Books to 50K Group, which is now running two or three conferences a year, in various places overseas, and, so …

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah, my friend’s heading back from that one in Vegas.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah?

Joanne Dannon:           And, yeah, she got a lot out of that one.

Sarah Williams:            Yup. So, yeah, we’ve got lots of choice now, especially the indies.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            There’s more conferences, I think, for indies, than traditional.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            But, yeah, so, well, that’s fantastic. Like I said, I’ve been to a Romance Writers of Australia Conference twice. I’m going to New Zealand this year. I’m an introvert, that’s why I’m looking forward to the smaller crowds, but of course, I’m hyping myself up, because next year, I’ll go to New York, for the American Conference.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah!

Sarah Williams:            So …

Joanne Dannon:           I would love to go that one, but the idea … I mean, they’ve got, their ballroom’s got 2,000 women in it! That just, for me, it just freaks me out. I’m like, “So many people in one space,” but I would love to go. I think that it would be amazing, and I think it would be a really good learning opportunity, as well, and networking. I think it would be really great.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah, yeah, so, I’m definitely … it’s taken me two years, to psych myself into it.

Joanne Dannon:           Yes.

Sarah Williams:            So, that’s brilliant. So, what are you working on at the moment?

Joanne Dannon:           So, yeah. So, I’m doing a second book, which is Felix’s story, which is going to be called, Falling From His Write, as in, W-R-I-T-E. Then, I’ve got another one that I’m writing at the moment, and it’s a bit of a [inaudible 00:23:47] romance. So, you’ve got someone, and it’s part of a set that I’m organizing, with some hot Asian guys.

Joanne Dannon:           So I’ve got a very good-looking, Chinese-English, tall, dark, handsome hero. So I’ve got that, that’s a bit of a typical romance. I’m doing that one, and I’m also running the set, as well, and that’s the one that’s coming out in August. And then, as I said, I’ve got to get my Christmas romances organized.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah.

Joanne Dannon:           But I’ll do them after I’ve done the others.

Sarah Williams:            Excellent.

Joanne Dannon:           Yeah.

Sarah Williams:            I know, if we join your mailing list, you send out a free book, yeah?

Joanne Dannon:           Yup, yup. Bidding On Love, which is a full stand alone romance. It’s one of my sexier romances, but what can you do? When you got an Argentinian hero, who’s drop dead gorgeous, and can dance, of course, but, in this [inaudible 00:24:37]. But, yeah, so you get a copy of that. So, if you go to my website, you can get a copy of that romance, and enjoy, and then, hopefully, you’ll like what I write, and then, try some other books.

Sarah Williams:            Yeah, excellent, and all the links to your social media is all over your website?

Joanne Dannon:           Yup. Yup. All on the website, which is joannedannon, one word, dot com. So, J-O-A, double N-E, D-A, double N, O-N, dot com.

Sarah Williams:            Excellent. Well, thank you so much for chatting to me today, Joanne.

Joanne Dannon:           Yes. Oh, thanks, and nice to chat with you.